Non-native language as minority language?

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Flir
New Keeper

Posts: 5

Country (residing now): Japan
Country (originally from): Russia
Children, Ages: Daughter, 0
Majority Language: Japanese
Minority Language(s): English

Non-native language as minority language? May 24, 2018 0:59:57 GMT 9

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Post by Flir on May 24, 2018 0:59:57 GMT 9

Hello!

Since this is my first post here and I just joined I kind of need to say hi.

First of all, my deepest apologies for all the people and countries affected by the brutal actions of my country (Russia). Although I did move away to Japan quite some time ago I still feel responsible for any damage inflicted by it.

I know my apologies would probably help no one but somehow feel obligated to apologize anyway so...

As you may guess I'm not a native English speaker but my objective would be teaching English as a minority language to my child (with Japanese as the majority language, my wife is Japanese). Why not Russian, you may ask? Well, I know it's quite a nice and interesting language which I admire and enjoy myself, however I don't see any reason for using Russian at home since there is almost no practical use to it worldwide, and I would really love my children to stay away from Russia for the reasons I mentioned (going there and spending money there contributes to further deaths of civilians in Ukraine, Syria, etc etc).

So I'm kind of looking for any advice on this or maybe anyone with a similar experience. I know my written English is not that bad since I just have a "backspace" key there and time to think and proofread before posting anything (actually this post by now took me almost 20 minutes to this point although I don't use any dictionary or spell checking at all). But when it comes to speaking I'm quite at a loss for words, my "daily phraseology" vocabulary is thinner than air right now (I mostly use professional English). I know it's quite late to start off with improving my communication skills now as our first child will be born later this month, I just wonder if anyone with a similar experience can share something, like, how damaging an incompetent use of English may be in a long-term perspective or I shouldn't really sweat it and just improve my speaking ASAP and afterwards just use proper language. I think I'm able to go to near-native level since I have some written skills now (or at least I think I do, lol) so this shouldn't be an issue, it's just not as transient as I'd like it to be.

There is also a possibility of us moving further on to an English-speaking country in the foreseeable future but it's just a possibility at the moment. Therefore teaching a language other than an internationally accepted one (to which Russian does not belong, in fact Japanese too but that's the mother's tongue and base country right now so can't object to that) would be counter-productive for the child.

We would be practicing "one parent, one language" approach with me being the only English source around so I should really give it my best and do my homework on reading aloud to my child every single day although I'm very busy with work. (Luckily, however, I work at home so will be doing my best to contribute to minor language exposure daily.) I'm still not done with a strategy of what and how but I'm looking into that now (and yep I bought and am reading Adam's book right now too).

Any input is welcome.

Thanks!

Raquel
Star Keeper

Posts: 1,234

Country (residing now): Spain
Country (originally from): Spain
Children, Ages: daughter (10) & son (7)
Majority Language: Spanish
Minority Language(s): English

Non-native language as minority language? May 24, 2018 19:22:16 GMT 9

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Post by Raquel on May 24, 2018 19:22:16 GMT 9

Hi Flir, welcome!!

There's a few of us, parents raising our children in our non-native language, on this forum, so you're in good company.

I know it may feel daunting at first, I felt the same way. I think reading Adam's book will help you a great deal in deciding how you want to tackle this and to what extent you can commit to speaking English to your child all the time.

I have a few thoughts for you:

1. Go for it. Know it's a lot of hard work, but also very rewarding. Reading Adam's book will help you with knowing what your options are and deciding which one is best for you. It'll also show you all the things you can do to make it work.

2. It isn't all or nothing. Some parents use the time and place technique: bath time is in the ml, or we speak the ml when mom isn't home, etc... This doesn't mean you have to go with it; I went all in and I still have these same doubts. Just know there's more options.

3. You can switch strategies later in time. I don't know whether I'll be able to have a serious conversation in the ml with my teenage kid. My take on this one is, if at some point I need to speak in both languages or just in the ML, at least they got all this exposure up until then. It's better than no exposure at all.

4. Start now. Look for children's songs and nursery rhymes in the ml (English), baby vocabulary you'll soon need to use (diaper, diaper bag, wipe, onesie, bottle, breastfeeding, pacifier, pram, changing table, colic, stroller...) Try thinking in English when you're thinking to yourself and look up those words and expressions you don't know how to say.

Best of luck! and congrats on the baby. Hope to see you around here soon, telling us how it's going.

Adam Beck
Head Keeper

Author of "Maximize Your Child's Bilingual Ability" and "Bilingual Success Stories Around the World"

Posts: 2,176
Country (residing now): Japan
Country (originally from): USA
Children, Ages: Girl, 19 and Boy, 16
Majority Language: Japanese
Minority Language(s): English, Spanish

Non-native language as minority language? May 25, 2018 13:58:22 GMT 9

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Post by Adam Beck on May 25, 2018 13:58:22 GMT 9

May 24, 2018 0:59:57 GMT 9 Flir said:

There is also a possibility of us moving further on to an English-speaking country in the foreseeable future but it's just a possibility at the moment. Therefore teaching a language other than an internationally accepted one (to which Russian does not belong, in fact Japanese too but that's the mother's tongue and base country right now so can't object to that) would be counter-productive for the child.

Flir, first, let me share my warm congratulations with you and your wife. The arrival of one's first child is a very special moment.

About your choice of languages to use within the family and hand down to your children, there's no "right" or "wrong" to this, of course. But let me just stress that, for many parents, the issue is less intellectual than emotional. For example, while it may not be practical to pursue Japanese as a second language outside Japan, your wife would likely feel, on an emotional level, that it's important to pursue this nevertheless, because this is her mother tongue and because her own parents and other extended family in Japan may not be able to communicate satisfactorily with your children in any language but Japanese.

I don't know the details of your own extended family back in Russia, but perhaps they will feel a similar desire to communicate with your children in their mother tongue? Or perhaps this isn't an issue?

Again, I'm not arguing one way or another, I'm just emphasizing the importance of weighing both intellectual and emotional factors in your decision-making.

As Raquel has said, you could certainly be successful in nurturing the child's English side, as long as the "core conditions" of exposure and need are adequately met: the child must receive ample exposure to the target language and feel a genuine need to actively use it. In order to achieve this, though, a strict version of the "one parent, one language" approach may not be sufficient unless you're able to spend substantial amounts of time with the child. It isn't clear to me which language(s) you use to communicate with your wife, but if she has some ability in English, then you would raise the odds of success significantly if she also uses English with the child, at least to some extent. For much more on this point, please see the video Important Research on Successfully Raising a Bilingual Child (which is based on an excerpt from my book).

On that note, I hope you find the content of my book, as well as the input from this community, helpful and encouraging!

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Flir
New Keeper

Posts: 5

Country (residing now): Japan
Country (originally from): Russia
Children, Ages: Daughter, 0
Majority Language: Japanese
Minority Language(s): English

Non-native language as minority language? May 25, 2018 20:31:42 GMT 9

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Post by Flir on May 25, 2018 20:31:42 GMT 9

Greetings Raquel, Adam!

Thank you for your kind inputs.

So I'm 30 and my wife is a few years older than me, this is our first child, which is definitely a big event for us.

Of course Japanese would be major since actually, as I probably mentioned, nobody else around speaks English, my wife either, our primary language together was always Japanese so that's why I never really gave much thought to advance my English skills. So for me it's mostly like a "read-only access" language. I can watch movies, videos, whatever in English but I fail to properly arrange my sentences when I speak in real time (typing is easy thanks to backspace key). That takes time and also vocabulary extension.

My mother can speak and write very very basic English and she's not opposed to me not teaching Russian instead to my child so yeah, no issues there.

While I do understand the need to spend time and read to my child many things around it are just so very new to me. I mean everything is, therefore I'm not yet sure to what extent I might succeed in this and even if would I, eventually. But yeah, I've got a basic outline and idea before me - pursue it! As for the rest "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" as Cpt. Joe Moser once said.

Still reading your book, Adam, will report back here soon.

Thanks again! Nice to see my case is not that unique after all!

Adam Beck
Head Keeper

Author of "Maximize Your Child's Bilingual Ability" and "Bilingual Success Stories Around the World"

Posts: 2,176
Country (residing now): Japan
Country (originally from): USA
Children, Ages: Girl, 19 and Boy, 16
Majority Language: Japanese
Minority Language(s): English, Spanish

Non-native language as minority language? May 26, 2018 6:40:20 GMT 9

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Post by Adam Beck on May 26, 2018 6:40:20 GMT 9

May 25, 2018 20:31:42 GMT 9 Flir said:

My mother can speak and write very very basic English and she's not opposed to me not teaching Russian instead to my child so yeah, no issues there.

While I do understand the need to spend time and read to my child many things around it are just so very new to me. I mean everything is, therefore I'm not yet sure to what extent I might succeed in this and even if would I, eventually. But yeah, I've got a basic outline and idea before me - pursue it! As for the rest "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" as Cpt. Joe Moser once said.

Flir, the arrival of a first child is certainly a wonderful time, but it can also be an overwhelming experience...and I think this is made even more challenging when there are multiple languages in the mix.

The fact that you're now doing what you can to prepare for the future--through reflection, interaction, information-gathering--is very positive and will no doubt serve you well as your family moves forward. At the same time, it's also true--as you suggested--that being a parent involves a lot of "on-the-job training," which means that there are many things we can't really know or clearly grasp until we actually enter the experience itself. But as long as you can establish and sustain some effective habits and routines for nurturing language exposure and need (the challenges at this forum highlight many of them), I expect you'll make steady and satisfying progress over time.

And I'm glad to hear that your mother is open to communicating with her grandchild in English. Since English will then be needed for communication with extended family, this will help fortify the "need" factor. On that same note, though, I would encourage you to carefully consider the information you'll find in my book from pages 115 to 124 (Principle 5, Satisfy the Core Conditions: Need). Because you and your wife are using Japanese as a shared language, you'll need to be as mindful and creative as possible so that the child's feelings of "need" for English aren't undercut by your regular use of Japanese.

Taysha
Junior Keeper

Posts: 34
Country (residing now): USA
Country (originally from): USA
Children, Ages: 2 kids (In March 2022, one will be six and the younger two!)
Majority Language: English
Minority Language(s): Spanish (ml1), Mandarin (ml2)

Non-native language as minority language? Jun 2, 2018 12:20:50 GMT 9

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Post by Taysha on Jun 2, 2018 12:20:50 GMT 9

Hi, Flir, I really agree with Raquel's thoughts, and I am in the same boat of our ml being my non-native language. Adam's book greatly influenced how I think about and pursue the bilingual journey--realizing the challenges and throwing all my creative energies and persistence at overcoming those.

About Russian, it is worth noting that we often do not foresee where our children will end up and what languages will be to their advantage when they get there. I have heard many adults bemoan the fact that their parents did not teach them their native language as children. Russian may also be the language you are best equipped to speak with the child, and that will allow for the more advanced conversations you need to have with him or her as a teenager. Even if you decide to go with English as ml1, Russian could still potentially be a ml2. It does not have to be, as Raquel noted, all or nothing. However, you know your situation, and I wish you all the best as you set out!

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