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Nellie
Star Keeper

Posts: 616

Country (residing now): France
Country (originally from): Australia
Children, Ages: Girl (5 years), boy (2 years)
Majority Language: French
Minority Language(s): English, Spanish

Hello from Santiago! Feb 27, 2017 12:16:38 GMT 9

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Post by Nellie on Feb 27, 2017 12:16:38 GMT 9

I was born and raised (mostly) in Australia but am fully bilingual in English and French as I attended French schools growing up, went to university in France and lived in Paris for 13 years. My husband is French and we speak French to each other. We have a 29-month-old daughter: I speak to her in English (which my husband understands well) and my husband speaks to her in French. To complicate matters, we moved to Chile 18 months ago and my daughter is currently attending a Spanish-language creche 6 hours a day (she has a French babysitter the rest of the time).

To be honest, I'm not sure whether she is on track with her language development as I don't know anyone else with children around the same age! However, in the last few months her language skills have really picked up - but to our surprise, the language she seems to communicate in the most is Spanish! She also talks a lot in French (and probably has the biggest vocabulary in French), but it is very difficult to get to her to actually SPEAK English - she clearly understands everything, but pretty much always replies to me in French or Spanish. I should clarify that she is not talking consistently in sentences, but more and more so. Sometimes she mixes them up in a single sentence - mostly French and Spanish.

If we are still here next year, we will enrol her in the French immersion school here.

While I'm very committed to developing her English skills, I have to admit that I'm a little concerned about the addition of Spanish. I'm also worried about her falling behind other French-language children (in French) if we stay in Chile for a while, as French schools are really hard and if you fall behind at an early age it can follow you for life! We have lots of books in French and English at home, and I have read the tips here very eagerly. I have subscribed her to Popi in French and Dot in English, and we listen to songs in French and English. I ordered workbooks for children in "Toute Petite Section" of school (which is the class for 2 year olds in France) and she loves doing exercises from those (either I read them in English, or my husband does them with her in the original French). We don't have a television and have decided to try to limit her screen time to Skyping with family until she turns 3 (I realize that many people find that apps and so on are very useful in developing language skills, so I know that this may not be the best option, but it's what we've decided on for the moment at least).

She receives absolutely no exposure to Spanish at home, but of course the moment she steps outside the home everything is in Spanish. We have also had some troubles meeting people here (apparently a common problem in this part of Latin America!), so she does not constantly have people coming over to the apartment and speaking in English and/or French, as she had when we were in Paris.

If anyone has any tips on raising trilingual children, I would be thrilled! My greatest fear in this regard is that she won't feel completely confident in any language - any advice would be most appreciated!

Amy
Star Keeper

***"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars" - Oscar Wilde***

Posts: 1,682

Country (residing now): France
Country (originally from): France
Children, Ages: 10 and 6year old girls
Majority Language: French
Minority Language(s): Spanish (ml1) & English (ml2)

Hello from Santiago! Feb 27, 2017 18:36:09 GMT 9

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Post by Amy on Feb 27, 2017 18:36:09 GMT 9

Coucou Nellie!

Welcome to this wonderful forum!

I am raising my 2 daughters (4 y.o. and 11 m.o.) in English, Spanish and French.

Hubby is Spanish, I'm French (but educated in British schools from a young age and I spent many years in the UK) and we live in France.

We had a similar problem to yours with my eldest. She understood both ml (Spanish and English) but spoke in ML (French) most of the time. Last summer, we discovered our flaw in our trilingual education: we used the ML to communicate as a couple and family, which means the ML got a lot more emphasis and our daughter had less exposure to the ml (which we only spoke with her).

Last August we simply kicked the ML out of our home. Since Hubby and I speak each other's language, when our kids are within earshot, I speak exclusively in English even to him and he in Spanish even when he replies to me. I took drastic measures (see my Guest post on Bilingual Monkeys - link in my signature - if that can be of any help) to de-emphasise the ML, and I am delighted to say that now my eldest always speaks in the ml which she never did before. It is not perfect (she also still mixes languages a bit), she still has room for improvement and she still tries to bring back the ML home from time to time, but we hold tight to our home rule: only ml.

Multilingual education is like sailing. Sometimes the sea is rough, but hold on tight to your helm and keep your course.

Don't get disheartened, keep being proactive. You will get there eventually.

Bon courage!

Amy

My guest post at Bilingual Monkeys: bilingualmonkeys.com/bilingual-families-and-limiting-the-influence-of-the-majority-language/

My blog in English: www.ourmlhome.wordpress.com My blog in French: bilingue.home.blog

Nellie
Star Keeper

Posts: 616

Country (residing now): France
Country (originally from): Australia
Children, Ages: Girl (5 years), boy (2 years)
Majority Language: French
Minority Language(s): English, Spanish

Hello from Santiago! Feb 28, 2017 8:36:56 GMT 9

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Post by Nellie on Feb 28, 2017 8:36:56 GMT 9

So good to read of your experiences Amy! I also really enjoyed your blog post.

What do you do if your eldest talks to you in ML? Do you pretend not to understand? I keep asking my daughter "how do you say that in English?", and she will then translate (sometimes), but her first reaction is often to speak in ML. If she says something spontaneously in English, I praise her loads obviously, and she does look proud. And her father does the same with French (although she does tend to speak more in French in general). But we're not sure what to do the rest of the time - whether we should just ignore whatever she says until she says it in the appropriate language, or whether we should just be pleased that she's communicating and encourage her regardless!

Funnily enough our only 'exposure' to ML in the home is her, because we are a bit cut off from 'normal life' as expats without a local circle of friends and no TV. So I find it extra strange that she has suddenly taken to it so strongly (I suppose I should take it as a sign that the local creche she is at is of good quality!).

Adam Beck
Head Keeper

Author of "Maximize Your Child's Bilingual Ability" and "Bilingual Success Stories Around the World"

Posts: 2,176
Country (residing now): Japan
Country (originally from): USA
Children, Ages: Girl, 19 and Boy, 16
Majority Language: Japanese
Minority Language(s): English, Spanish

Hello from Santiago! Feb 28, 2017 11:27:18 GMT 9

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Post by Adam Beck on Feb 28, 2017 11:27:18 GMT 9

Nellie, welcome! I understand your concerns, but if you can hold to a longer view of her language development and continue to provide consistent input in English and French, I think the situation will evolve in line with your hopes. The process of raising bilingual kids can often be a "messy" business--particularly early on--and, in your case, working with three languages makes this even more challenging. But patience and perseverance will win out!

At the same time, it's true that there are a lot of "moving parts" to your situation, like: how long do you plan to live in Chile, will she continue schooling or other activities in Spanish beyond this year, etc. Assuming you place her in the French school next year, I expect her French--between the exposure from school and from your husband--will quickly grow more dominant and her Spanish may wither, unless some sort of Spanish opportunities are maintained.

Meanwhile, I don't know the details of your own work situation, but if her English side is lagging somewhat, I suspect there's less exposure to this language than to French and Spanish. And the fact that you and your husband communicate in French--so your daughter is well aware that you're proficient in French, too--means that she doesn't really have a genuine need to actively use English with you. Thus, it may be that this combination of the two--the lack of both exposure and need--is creating the current "drag" on her development in English.

The "danger" ahead, if she attends the French school and the situation otherwise remains the same, is that French will probably grow overly dominant and activating her English ability could become even more of a struggle.

Is it possible to increase her exposure to English in certain ways? Could you spend even more time with her, or clone yourself or find other English-speaking input if your schedule won't permit this? And what if you try altering the communication between you and your husband, with you speaking only English--to your daughter and to your husband--while he continues to use French? That would be another way to help address what feels like a lack of exposure and need on her English side.

Nellie, I hope these initial thoughts are useful to you!

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Amy
Star Keeper

***"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars" - Oscar Wilde***

Posts: 1,682

Country (residing now): France
Country (originally from): France
Children, Ages: 10 and 6year old girls
Majority Language: French
Minority Language(s): Spanish (ml1) & English (ml2)

Hello from Santiago! Mar 1, 2017 6:35:58 GMT 9

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Post by Amy on Mar 1, 2017 6:35:58 GMT 9

Feb 28, 2017 8:36:56 GMT 9 Nellie said:

What do you do if your eldest talks to you in ML? Do you pretend not to understand? I keep asking my daughter "how do you say that in English?", and she will then translate (sometimes), but her first reaction is often to speak in ML. If she says something spontaneously in English, I praise her loads obviously, and she does look proud.

I don’t have a fixed approach, I adapt to the situation so that I avoid the novelty wearing-off one set technique.

- The one that had quite a lot of success was recommended to me by a Bilingual School teacher: “Ouch! Ouch! what was that?? That is so painful to my ears!!”

That teacher even asks her students to make up for the « pain » by saying 2 words in English.

- Sometimes, I simply correct my daughter and she usually repeats after me.

- I also ask her "how do you say that in English?" and she might say it but I think that she usually says something in ML because the ml word wouldn’t come to her at that very moment she needs it. Lately she actually says the word in ML to ask me how to say it in ml2, which I don't mind as at least she made the effort to communicate in ml2 and asked to learn the ml2 word.

- I pretend not to understand with a big grin, tugging on my ear and a wink.

- Like you, I always praise the use of a perfect sentence or vocabulary.

- If I catch her playing or singing in ML I interrupt her with a chit-chat or question and that usually sets her back on track without her even realising.

Also bear in mind that apparently, before a certain age, small children don’t really grasp the difference between languages. The age varies depending on the source. Personally I read 4 and I remember it because it coincided with my daughter turning 4 and suddenly one day her understanding that she speaks 3 different languages called "English", "Spanish" and "French".

Until I de-emphasized ML at home, I considered that ml1 was in fact another dominant language (like you with French), just after the ML of course. As in your situation, my daughter spoke hardly any English with me. In fact, it takes a bit of time and having 3 languages to handle is an awful lot of information competing for our little one’s attention. In my case, I found that my daughter’s language development took turns per language. In other words, 1 month she’d progress in ml1, then the next month the ML, then the following month in ml2, etc. Once I identified this pattern, I just learned to be patient and to keep holding on.

Adam nailed the issue “…the fact that you and your husband communicate in French--so your daughter is well aware that you're proficient in French, too--means that she doesn't really have a genuine need to actively use English with you.”

We used to communicate in French (ML for us) as a couple and family and my daughter never wanted to actively use her 2 ml. The minute Hubby and I stuck to each other’s language, my daughter started to use her 2 ml.

Maybe you should do a trial over a week or so and see how it influences your daughter…

Nellie
Star Keeper

Posts: 616

Country (residing now): France
Country (originally from): Australia
Children, Ages: Girl (5 years), boy (2 years)
Majority Language: French
Minority Language(s): English, Spanish

Hello from Santiago! Mar 1, 2017 9:03:46 GMT 9

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Post by Nellie on Mar 1, 2017 9:03:46 GMT 9

Thanks so much to both of you - they are really good ideas!

Yes I do work full-time (I am currently the main 'breadwinner'), so it is definitely true that my daughter's exposure to English is lesser. This is even true culturally - because French culture is so much more standardized than Anglophone cultures (at least in my opinion!), she is receiving more consistent messaging in French - such as around things like meals, life rhythms etc - all of her French story books tend to send the same basic messages, whereas the English ones are a bit more...well, anarchic! Also, even if she is obviously not even close to reading yet, a lot of the products (such as shampoo, some food packets etc) we have around the apartment seem to be French ones, probably because we gravitate towards them because we know them. So I feel as though the worldview she is likely to develop is more French than English, especially with the fact that she will attend French school starting next year (if we are still in Chile). I have no problem with this, but I do want her to be able to speak English confidently and to be able to navigate Anglophone relationships easily!

We are not sure how long we will be in Chile - it could be anytime between another 6 months and another 3-4 years. Once we leave, I imagine that I will be trying to find ways to keep her Spanish up, which will feel quite ironic!

I think you are both right when you suggest that I should consider talking in English to my husband (which would certainly be possible as he speaks it well). I think I've been reluctant to do so to date in case it negatively affected her French, but perhaps that's misguided? To be honest, my greatest fear is that she will grow up not totally confident in at least one language. Is that silly? I do hope so.

Interesting point Amy about the fact that children can't distinguish between languages until a certain age. One thing that I have noticed my daughter doing recently is taking a French word and using the Spanish grammar on it - so, for "open", she will say "ouvierto". I think her grandparents are going to be quite amused when they see her next - either that, or they won't understand a word!

Thanks again to both of you for your feedback! Adam - it's difficult for me to order your book here in Santiago, but my husband will be travelling to the US in a few months and I have put it on my list of things for him to collect while he is there! So I'm looking forward to getting more tips there.

Dave Hartley
Junior Keeper

Posts: 66

Country (residing now): Spain
Country (originally from): UK
Children, Ages: 2 Girls (1yr & 3yrs!)
Majority Language: English
Minority Language(s): Spanish, German

Hello from Santiago! Mar 1, 2017 22:36:06 GMT 9

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Post by Dave Hartley on Mar 1, 2017 22:36:06 GMT 9

Hi Nellie, it's really interesting to read your story. You're in a wonderful position, where you're able to give your kids opportunities to learn languages and to teach them about the world and different cultures. Wow! It's very exciting.

I can relate to your concerns because we're in a similar position. My daughters are learning Spanish at school, and I want to teach them German because I'm half German. I've only just embarked on this adventure, in the last few weeks, so it still feels messy, unreal, awkward, forced, daunting etc!!

I'll be really interested to follow your progress, and I look forward to hearing your ideas and techniques and successes!!

Adam Beck
Head Keeper

Author of "Maximize Your Child's Bilingual Ability" and "Bilingual Success Stories Around the World"

Posts: 2,176
Country (residing now): Japan
Country (originally from): USA
Children, Ages: Girl, 19 and Boy, 16
Majority Language: Japanese
Minority Language(s): English, Spanish

Hello from Santiago! Mar 3, 2017 6:45:16 GMT 9

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Post by Adam Beck on Mar 3, 2017 6:45:16 GMT 9

Mar 1, 2017 9:03:46 GMT 9 Nellie said:

We are not sure how long we will be in Chile - it could be anytime between another 6 months and another 3-4 years. Once we leave, I imagine that I will be trying to find ways to keep her Spanish up, which will feel quite ironic!

I think you are both right when you suggest that I should consider talking in English to my husband (which would certainly be possible as he speaks it well). I think I've been reluctant to do so to date in case it negatively affected her French, but perhaps that's misguided? To be honest, my greatest fear is that she will grow up not totally confident in at least one language. Is that silly? I do hope so.

Nellie, as it sounds like you'll be returning to France in the fairly near future--and, at that point, your daughter will be immersed in French schooling and society--I don't think you need to fear that her French will somehow wind up weaker than a French native. Initially, she may be a bit behind other kids there, but that really shouldn't be a worry as she'll no doubt catch up quickly.

So along with the French input that she currently receives, I do think it would be helpful to fortify her English exposure and need, and this can be effectively addressed if you switch to using only English with her and around her. The fact is, when you're back in France and her French becomes even more dominant, this greater emphasis on English will become a necessity, I think. It's best, though, that this pattern begin now in order to support her broader language development and establish this habit early in the journey (such patterns of language use can be more difficult to alter later on, for parent and child both).

At the same, providing her with this early foundation in Spanish, too, will likely pay off in the future with strong trilingual ability all around.

Adam Beck
Head Keeper

Author of "Maximize Your Child's Bilingual Ability" and "Bilingual Success Stories Around the World"

Posts: 2,176
Country (residing now): Japan
Country (originally from): USA
Children, Ages: Girl, 19 and Boy, 16
Majority Language: Japanese
Minority Language(s): English, Spanish

Hello from Santiago! Mar 3, 2017 7:19:24 GMT 9

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Post by Adam Beck on Mar 3, 2017 7:19:24 GMT 9

Mar 1, 2017 9:03:46 GMT 9 Nellie said:

Adam - it's difficult for me to order your book here in Santiago, but my husband will be travelling to the US in a few months and I have put it on my list of things for him to collect while he is there! So I'm looking forward to getting more tips there.

Nellie, I hope you find my book helpful to your journey! Thanks!

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