A French in Germany

Line G.
Junior Keeper

Posts: 25

Country (residing now): Germany
Country (originally from): France
Children, Ages: Manu, 4
Majority Language: German
Minority Language(s): French

A French in Germany Jul 16, 2015 18:03:59 GMT 9

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Post by Line G. on Jul 16, 2015 18:03:59 GMT 9

Hello everyone,

I'm French and I've lived in Germany for about ten years now. At that time I had neither a job nor any real proficiency in German, but I was in love, and what can you do?

I spent about a year learning the German language before I was proficient enough to work in that language and I've stayed since. When my son was born, it was obvious to me that I wanted to raise him bilingual!

My boy is now 4. I talk to him in French and my husband talks to him in German. He's also going to a German kindergarten during the day. He really associates the languages with this context. He talks both languages actively and switches between the two depending on who he is addressing. He gets irritated if I answer a question he asked in German. "No mom, I'm asking daddy!" he'll say. Obvious: if he was asking me, he'd be speaking French.

The challenges on the way:

- his speech is a bit delayed for what is expected at his age. For example he has trouble differentiating gender in both languages. His pronunciation is also not very good and he's seeing a (German) speech therapist

- his French is less advanced than his German, I'm concerned about not letting that gap widen

- the years of primary school are slowly drawing nearer and I'm starting to wonder how to achieve literacy in both French and German

- his speech is not the only thing I have to worry about, since he's a very active child who loves running around, but gets awfully bored the minute he's given a pencil. His kindergarten is complaining about that.

Sometimes it seems the days are too short to deal with all that! I'm glad to meet you all and to read all your great tips and ideas.

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A French in Germany Jul 16, 2015 20:59:00 GMT 9

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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 20:59:00 GMT 9

Willkommen! Bienvenue!

Where are you in Germany?

Here in Munich, there is une association which gives classes/groups for bilingual children in French and German, if they can't be schooled into a French or bilingual school/Kindergarten, including learning to read and write. We're giving it a go next week (Sam just turned 2).

Do you get to go back to France often?

Hope you find some answers here.

Servus!

Line G.
Junior Keeper

Posts: 25

Country (residing now): Germany
Country (originally from): France
Children, Ages: Manu, 4
Majority Language: German
Minority Language(s): French

A French in Germany Jul 16, 2015 21:31:39 GMT 9

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Post by Line G. on Jul 16, 2015 21:31:39 GMT 9

Hello!

I'm in Nuremberg. There's a "Petite école francaise" for kids his age, but it's on Friday at 3pm and I work full time. Not an option. Other than that there is no bilingual kindergarten (Nuremberg is much smaller than Munich). For primary school, if we don't move till then, there may be an option for having some French lessons in the cursus.. but that's in two years time.

We go to France about every three months and we skype every week with his French grandparents.

Mayken
Star Keeper

Cool in two languages!

Posts: 1,286

Country (residing now): France
Country (originally from): Germany
Children, Ages: Girl, 14
Majority Language: French
Minority Language(s): German (and learning English)

A French in Germany Jul 16, 2015 23:24:46 GMT 9

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Post by Mayken on Jul 16, 2015 23:24:46 GMT 9

Bienvenue Line!

We're in a very similar position, with the languages reversed, aside from the minor fact I have a girl, she's a year older, and it's hard to pry a pencil from her hand once she gets hold of it.

My daughter is still mixing up genders too, at least in her ml.

I'm the only ml speaker in everyday life. We do skype with the grandparents but not as regularly as you do, and we go to Germany three times a year.

I had similar concerns to yours, and that is why I am beyond thrilled that we got a rare spot in a school with a native speaker program, one hour per day. She starts in September, and I'm very curious how that will impact her ml skills.

I'm no expert (only a parent), but I'm surprised that your son sees a speech therapist. A four-year-old bilingual child should be expected to not have perfect pronunciation. Does the speech therapist have any experience with bilingual children or is at least open to the idea? (I hope so!)

At any rate, you have come to the right place. The zoo is great, and there are lots of nice and helpful zoo keepers, so please try on your uniform, get your broom, and help me sweep the monkey cage.

Cheers from Paris,

Mayken

My guest post at Bilingual Monkeys on traveling to our minority language country

Line G.
Junior Keeper

Posts: 25

Country (residing now): Germany
Country (originally from): France
Children, Ages: Manu, 4
Majority Language: German
Minority Language(s): French

A French in Germany Jul 17, 2015 0:14:30 GMT 9

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Post by Line G. on Jul 17, 2015 0:14:30 GMT 9

Jul 16, 2015 23:24:46 GMT 9 Mayken said:

I'm no expert (only a parent), but I'm surprised that your son sees a speech therapist. A four-year-old bilingual child should be expected to not have a perfect pronunciation. Does the speech therapist have any experience with bilingual children or is at least open to the idea? (I hope so!)

Every single kid I've seen in her office is multilingual. My guess is most of them have 0 speech disorders. It usually goes this way.

Kindergarten yearly evaluation: "That kid can't pronounce the "sch". I don't care why, that's not my job. Let's suggest speech therapy."

Doctor: "Kindergarten thinks speech therapy is a good idea? Why, of course! The earlier the better! Here is a referral for two years treatment!"

Speech therapist: "Alright, once he manages the pronunciation we can start working on grammar."

Me: "Aren't you kinda overqualified for a German course?"

The issue is that most kindergartens don't really have a better strategy to deal with multilingual kids. Mine in fact has zero strategy to deal with it. They don't even understand what it is. (I was told that my kid's mother tongue is French because I'm his mom and I speak French. Despite the fact that German is his ML. I tried to explain and pretty much ran into a wall.)

But everyone is happy, my kid gets 1:1 lessons, is making huge progress in pronunciation, and it's free. Who am I to complain? Oh, right, that's why I pay insurance... Never mind...

Mayken
Star Keeper

Cool in two languages!

Posts: 1,286

Country (residing now): France
Country (originally from): Germany
Children, Ages: Girl, 14
Majority Language: French
Minority Language(s): German (and learning English)

A French in Germany Jul 17, 2015 3:44:09 GMT 9

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Post by Mayken on Jul 17, 2015 3:44:09 GMT 9

Jul 17, 2015 0:14:30 GMT 9 Line G. said:

But everyone is happy, my kid gets 1:1 lessons, is making huge progress in pronunciation, and it's free. Who am I to complain? Oh, right, that's why I pay insurance... Never mind...

Oh dear, poor Line!

That's so sad. But yeah, I see the positive aspects.

If ever someone tells us to go to a speech therapist, I will get in touch with the one who's a (founding?) member of a multilingual association we used to be part of. A shame people like her are the exception.

My guest post at Bilingual Monkeys on traveling to our minority language country

Line G.
Junior Keeper

Posts: 25

Country (residing now): Germany
Country (originally from): France
Children, Ages: Manu, 4
Majority Language: German
Minority Language(s): French

A French in Germany Jul 17, 2015 4:28:18 GMT 9

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Post by Line G. on Jul 17, 2015 4:28:18 GMT 9

Oh, it's fine, really.

While it's frustrating that so few people understand bilingualism, thankfully I also have online communities like this one to learn more and go on with my journey.

It's great that you could find an international school for your daughter. It's not easy to find such programs in German (unless you're in Alsace, where bilingualism is still quite widespread).

Adam Beck
Head Keeper

Author of "Maximize Your Child's Bilingual Ability" and "Bilingual Success Stories Around the World"

Posts: 2,176
Country (residing now): Japan
Country (originally from): USA
Children, Ages: Girl, 19 and Boy, 16
Majority Language: Japanese
Minority Language(s): English, Spanish

A French in Germany Jul 17, 2015 8:04:05 GMT 9

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Post by Adam Beck on Jul 17, 2015 8:04:05 GMT 9

Jul 16, 2015 18:03:59 GMT 9 Line G. said:

Sometimes it seems the days are too short...

Line, welcome! I know exactly how you feel!

Despite the concerns you mention, it sounds to me like you and your son are doing quite well. The fact that he has become "conditioned" to use French with you is a key sign of early success. And the frequent trips you make to France, along with those weekly Skype chats, will continue to have a very positive impact on his language development moving forward.

As for literacy, I would encourage you to continue reading to him in French as much as possible. Not only will this foster his own budding literacy, and interest in books, it will raise his overall level of ability in the language. I expect you'll find, too, that the general similarity between the French and German scripts (though others are better qualified to judge this than me, since I have little personal experience of these two languages) will aid the process of literacy in both through some degree of helpful "transfer." In other words, once he learns to clearly distinguish the two scripts, his growing ability in one will support the development of the other, and vice versa.

Line, I look forward to hearing more good news from you as time passes!

Bilingual SuperKids: Supercharge the success and joy of your family's bilingual or multilingual journey with powerful private coaching from Adam Beck, author of "Maximize Your Child's Bilingual Ability" and "Bilingual Success Stories Around the World"
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A French in Germany Jul 17, 2015 21:23:22 GMT 9

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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 21:23:22 GMT 9

If you ever come down to Munich (or me up in Nuremberg...I haven't been in ages), maybe we can meet up and speak French only.

Sorry to hear that there is not much in Nuremberg. Have you tried to set up a group of French-speaking parents with kids? Parents of a friend of mine have French neighbours with a kid in Nuremberg...I'm sure you're not alone. Would that be an option?

As for the therapy, as long as he enjoys going, then you're right, make the most of it.

Line G.
Junior Keeper

Posts: 25

Country (residing now): Germany
Country (originally from): France
Children, Ages: Manu, 4
Majority Language: German
Minority Language(s): French

A French in Germany Jul 20, 2015 2:21:35 GMT 9

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Post by Line G. on Jul 20, 2015 2:21:35 GMT 9

Thanks Elodie.

We'll make a trip to Munich at some point or other! I'm also planning to use the "francais de Franconie" Verein to get to know more French people.

Adam: Reading aloud is already a given. I'm a bookworm myself, and my kid has plenty of books in both languages. We both love reading aloud. But I'm afraid that transfer won't be alone on its own. No amount of German literacy can prepare someone on how to read something like "étaient". I'll have to teach him at some point, the only question is when and how.

Reina
Senior Keeper

Posts: 177

Country (residing now): The Netherlands
Country (originally from): Spain
Children, Ages: Dirk and Antonio (twins, 7 years old)
Majority Language: Dutch
Minority Language(s): Spanish

A French in Germany Aug 5, 2015 6:53:29 GMT 9

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Post by Reina on Aug 5, 2015 6:53:29 GMT 9

Welcome Line! I have a similar situation. One of my twins has also been to speech therapy in Dutch (ML) as he could not say many sounds in Dutch. Not taking into account the fact that they advised me to stop speaking Spanish (ml) to him, which I did not do, I am happy he attended. One way or another, the better his Dutch got, the better his Spanish got, especially in grammar. It is like being able to make more difficult sentences in one language created "hangers" where he could also hang more difficult sentences in the other language. It was really fun to see. After two years, he stopped but still he is slightly behind his brother, but well...his brother is extremely talented with languages. As long as it does not cost you and he is happy, continue with it.

As for literacy, I was worrying a lot but with one of the boys, it has been really easy. Once he cracked the trick of reading in ML, a few days of practice enabled to read in ml. Maybe it was made very easy by the way they learn to read in ML (Dutch), phonetically. The sound of the letter itself is almost the same in Spanish so once he learned the exceptions, he could read in Spanish. What we did is that he would try every day to read a few sentences from the book I am reading to them. Then it was like a game for him and it did not involve much time or effort on my side. Also when we visited Spain this summer (we are just back), he read all the signs, names of stores... He loved it and it was a great practice. Is your son interested in reading in French?

For his brother, the one who went to therapy, I have not started yet as he is still having problems reading in Dutch. So we are concentrating the efforts in helping him there, leaving literacy in Spanish for a later stage. I would love him also to read in Spanish as his brother does but it is HIS bilingual trip and I may have my targets but I need to change them to fit his abilities and needs.

As time is limited and I am too lazy to have a homework routine every day (Adam is my hero with that), I have decided that all my efforts will go to boosting their speaking ability in ml and keeping the language alive (they are 7 now). I believe that when they are older, they will also be able to learn to write and to read in Spanish fluently as their spoken Spanish is very strong, they use it every day and their vocabulary is very broad. At this point, it does not worry me much anymore. It will come later.

Reading the gap, I would advise you to shift gears with the reading and start reading him more difficult books with more complex vocabulary and with chapters in ml. 4 years old is a great time to move into chapter books. Chapter books give you the chance to talk about it during the day (what do you think is going to happen next? will the hero win?). More complex books for older kids will give him the chance to hear many difficult words he would not hear every day. My kids stopped me every sentence when we started, asking the meaning of this or that word, but after a while you hear those words in their speech and you know exactly why you do it even when it is annoying to stop so many times while reading.

Adam Beck Head Keeper Author of "Maximize Your Child's Bilingual Ability" and "Bilingual Success Stories Around the World" Posts: 2,176 Country (residing now): Japan Country (originally from): USA Children, Ages: Girl, 19 and Boy, 16 Majority Language: Japanese Minority Language(s): English, Spanish	A French in Germany Aug 7, 2015 10:11:42 GMT 9 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Adam Beck on Aug 7, 2015 10:11:42 GMT 9 Welcome back, Reina! I hope you guys had a great time in Spain!
	Bilingual SuperKids: Supercharge the success and joy of your family's bilingual or multilingual journey with powerful private coaching from Adam Beck, author of "Maximize Your Child's Bilingual Ability" and "Bilingual Success Stories Around the World" bilingualsuperkids.com

Reina Senior Keeper Posts: 177 Country (residing now): The Netherlands Country (originally from): Spain Children, Ages: Dirk and Antonio (twins, 7 years old) Majority Language: Dutch Minority Language(s): Spanish	A French in Germany Aug 10, 2015 1:09:39 GMT 9 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Reina on Aug 10, 2015 1:09:39 GMT 9 Thanks Adam. It was really nice. Only too, too hot. Every day it was above 40C, even some days 45C. It had not been so hot in 45 years.