Development of our bilingual child

Edward
Junior Keeper

Posts: 22
Country (residing now): Turkey
Country (originally from): The Netherlands
Children, Ages: Daughter, 2.5 years old
Majority Language: Turkish
Minority Language(s): English, Dutch

Development of our bilingual child Nov 13, 2018 19:39:15 GMT 9

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Post by Edward on Nov 13, 2018 19:39:15 GMT 9

Hello all,

After Amy's suggestion to make a 'Track Your Progress' thread, I thought it would be a good idea to occasionally post about the development of my child.

To give my family's story. I am a Dutch citizen living in Turkey. I speak three languages: English, Dutch and Turkish. My wife speaks Turkish and English. My wife and I communicate with each other in English. Our wonderful daughter is 2,5 years old now. After she was born I started to speak English to her since day one. We decided to do an OPOL approach. My wife would speak Turkish to her and I would speak English to her. This went fine. After a year she started to refer to me as 'daddy', 'mommy' came later though, most likely because the Turkish word for mommy, 'anne', is freakishly hard to pronounce for babies (I keep on repeating to myself that I hate the Turkish word for mommy

). Anyway, the first two years both languages developed at an equal pace. We were feeling confident and certain that our bilingual journey was going to be successful.

The doubts started after last summer. We spent most of our summer time with my wife's family. In this time my daughter saw me interact with her parents a lot...in Turkish. Outside I also had to interact with people in Turkish (we went to swimming pools, beaches, playgrounds, we simply meet other people there). First this wasn't a problem. For example, on the swing, she would say 'salıncak' to my wife, and 'swing' to me. Everything seemed fine. However, after summer we returned to our normal life and our daughter suddenly hardly spoke English anymore. She figured daddy out...daddy knows Turkish.

We had to readjust our strategy. My wife started to speak English to our daughter as well. Now during the day our daughter is exposed to Turkish (family is watching her during the day), and in the evenings and weekends she is exposed to English.It has only been 1,5 weeks since we changed our strategy, but she is really opening up in English now too. She knows a lot in English, and while Turkish is still the stronger language, I am really not disappointed about her English development. Things seems fine, and it looks like our transition to 'ml at home' made a big improvement for us.

She is still code-switching a lot. Probably because she knows she can. Hopefully that will smooth itself out later. For now it is really cute, though. My heart truly melts when I hear her half-Turkish half-English sentences. Yesterday I had a conversation with her like this:
daughter: cleaningiyorum'
me: I am cleaning.
daughter: cleaniyorum?
me: I am cleaning.
daughter (slightly annoyed tone): I am cleaning.

Also, if anyone is curious...she only knows three Dutch words: 'oma' (grandma), 'opa' (grandpa) and 'ja' (yes). She learnt yes before no...which is kind of unique for her age. However, we are not actively trying to teach her Dutch.

I will occasionaly post an update at this thread. I really enjoyed the chitchat and comments of you guys in my other thread. So feel free to give feedback or opinions. I enjoy reading them.

Mayken
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Cool in two languages!

Posts: 1,286

Country (residing now): France
Country (originally from): Germany
Children, Ages: Girl, 14
Majority Language: French
Minority Language(s): German (and learning English)

Development of our bilingual child Nov 13, 2018 21:12:05 GMT 9 via mobile

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Post by Mayken on Nov 13, 2018 21:12:05 GMT 9

Welcome to the Track Your Progress board, Edward!

I posted around the zoo for years before starting my own thread, and I'm glad I finally did. So much easier to, well, track your progress. 😀

I remember from your other thread that you said since you don't have family in English-speaking countries, you won't be able to travel there.

I'd like to encourage you to rethink that approach. Financial and vacation-time concerns aside, you can always find a way to make a trip to a country of your ml in such a way that your child profits from it linguistically. Family is a huge bonus but not a requirement.

When my daughter was 3, we spent one week in our ml country in a family hotel with a kids club and activities for kids aged 3 to 7. We put her in the kids club every morning. Her ml exploded three weeks after we got back home. We returned there when she was 4, then chose a new family holiday resort for the next 3 summers, a week each time. She had direct contact with other ml kids, structured activities, and of course everyone except ML daddy spoke the ml around her.

Never say no. It isn't always possible but often you can find ways to make some things happen. (I managed to get my daughter attending school in our ml country for a few days during our visits. I just contacted the school and asked.)

Cheering for you and your family,

Mayken

My guest post at Bilingual Monkeys on traveling to our minority language country

Edward
Junior Keeper

Posts: 22
Country (residing now): Turkey
Country (originally from): The Netherlands
Children, Ages: Daughter, 2.5 years old
Majority Language: Turkish
Minority Language(s): English, Dutch

Development of our bilingual child Nov 13, 2018 22:33:05 GMT 9

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Post by Edward on Nov 13, 2018 22:33:05 GMT 9

While I fully agree with you that it would be very beneficial to go to the ml country, the options are very limited. For me or my daughter it wouldn't be that difficult (since we are both Dutch passport holders), but because of the political situation between Turkey and Europe it has been extremely difficult for us to go the Netherlands. My wife is Turkish and still has to get a visa in order to enter Europe (or I go without my wife, but our child is really too young for long-term separation from mommy). The paperwork is insane and near impossible to arrange here if you consider we both have full-time jobs. The UK will be even more difficult because I am not native to that country. I am not even going to start about the USA, since they are even stricter than Europe.

And honestly...I would have loved to visit my parents with my child (especially when she was younger), so she might have learnt some Dutch as well, but that simply wasn't possible. I am not that concerned that she is going to lack exposure to English. The English language is integrated in our family, and I can't imagine that I will ever switch to Turkish while talking with my wife. Whenever we have an opportunity to skype with my parents, English is also the language used, since my parents obviously don't know any Turkish. Half of her books are in English too, television time is in English...the good thing about English is that it literally exists in every country, so it is much easier to integrate the language into a child's life.

Amy
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***"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars" - Oscar Wilde***

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Development of our bilingual child Nov 14, 2018 6:01:38 GMT 9

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Post by Amy on Nov 14, 2018 6:01:38 GMT 9

Hi Edward!

Nice to see you on this board! I have another suggestion for you concerning holidays: picking a Turkish resort mostly frequented by English natives.

Turkey has a lot of lovely resorts such as in Antalya (or so I have heard as I have never been

), attracting a lot of foreign tourists. Aren't there any places known for being "invaded" by Brits (for instance) over the summer?

Anyway, that is just an idea. As you say, the good thing with having English as a ml is that it is so widely spoken that you have more opportunities to find speakers and resources.

Also, do your parents also often visit? Because if they speak English with your wife, then that counts as extra ml exposure and "exterior" (i.e: not home) speakers.

Amy

My guest post at Bilingual Monkeys: bilingualmonkeys.com/bilingual-families-and-limiting-the-influence-of-the-majority-language/

My blog in English: www.ourmlhome.wordpress.com My blog in French: bilingue.home.blog

Edward
Junior Keeper

Posts: 22
Country (residing now): Turkey
Country (originally from): The Netherlands
Children, Ages: Daughter, 2.5 years old
Majority Language: Turkish
Minority Language(s): English, Dutch

Development of our bilingual child Nov 14, 2018 15:35:08 GMT 9

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Post by Edward on Nov 14, 2018 15:35:08 GMT 9

Yes that would be an option as well. We will definitely travel around with her in Turkey, but I think it is unrealistic to expect an immersion English experience in Antalya, Bodrum or other tourist resorts. However, there are some neighbourhoods where primarily British people live, and in these neighbourhoods English is actually the main language. By the same token, there are also neighbourhoods with mostly Dutch people (generally retired people who got tired of our horrible weather, so they bought a house in Turkey), and Dutch is mostly spoken in those neighbourhoods. It's something we can consider if we want to increase her exposure to the ml.

Our current best possibility for increasing her exposure to ml is putting her in a bilingual daycare center, and continue with that during her school years. In one way I like this idea, but I think she can't learn much from these classes because most other children in her class will still be Turkish (so she will be way ahead with her English compared to her classmates). We don't live in one of the major cities of Turkey, so there aren't many foreigners here. There are probably better options in Istanbul, but we simply don't live there. We will observe her development. These last few days she has been speaking 50-50 English/Turkish (thanks to my wife). So for now we are happy with the balance.

As for my parents...only skype for now. I have been asking them a lot to come to Turkey, but they aren't coming, so what can I do?

My daughter loves skyping with them, though, so that is something we are doing regularly.

Amy
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***"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars" - Oscar Wilde***

Posts: 1,682

Country (residing now): France
Country (originally from): France
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Minority Language(s): Spanish (ml1) & English (ml2)

Development of our bilingual child Nov 14, 2018 16:40:44 GMT 9

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Post by Amy on Nov 14, 2018 16:40:44 GMT 9

Edward,

I agree that all these ml opportunities in Turkey might not have the same linguistic quality and/or level they would have had in a native ml country. However, they still have an incredible value you might not notice just yet: they show to your child that the ml exists/is spoken outside of home. This is incredibly important so your child does not grow ml resistant when she starts nursery school (especially if it is an ML school). You see, small children want to be like their peers and don't want to stand out. When they're teens, it will be the reverse, but it will then be too late language-wise if they have never used their ml. This is what I have learnt from my experience with my eldest and that I heard of another bilingual family.

As for my parents...only skype for now. I have been asking them a lot to come to Turkey, but they aren't coming, so what can I do?

My daughter loves skyping with them, though, so that is something we are doing regularly.

You can't force them, of course!

You will have to content yourself with Skype then, but that is already great that your daughter shows interest as a lot of kids don't. It is additional ml exposure and it does just what I mentioned above: illustrate that the ml is spoken by other people.

Amy

My guest post at Bilingual Monkeys: bilingualmonkeys.com/bilingual-families-and-limiting-the-influence-of-the-majority-language/

My blog in English: www.ourmlhome.wordpress.com My blog in French: bilingue.home.blog

Raquel
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Posts: 1,234

Country (residing now): Spain
Country (originally from): Spain
Children, Ages: daughter (10) & son (7)
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Development of our bilingual child Nov 14, 2018 21:40:11 GMT 9

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Post by Raquel on Nov 14, 2018 21:40:11 GMT 9

Hi Edward! Welcome to the forum.

I have to agree with Amy on the bilingual school. Not only that, but even if the rest of the children are Turkish, your daughter will still get more exposure to English than she would if she went to a monolingual school. I didn't care that my daughter's school was a bilingual school, but now that she's spending more time with her friends and using more the ML, it's a relief to know they'll be using the ml much more next year when she starts primary school.

I've mentioned it before, but the summer they turn 2 is very important, language-wise. I don't know why this happens, but a friend told me about it and it was true for both my children. Both their turning 2 summers were full of the ml, and it made a great impact on their use and competence of the ml at the time. I'm glad your change in language strategy is working so well. Keep it up!!

Amy
Star Keeper

***"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars" - Oscar Wilde***

Posts: 1,682

Country (residing now): France
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Development of our bilingual child Nov 14, 2018 21:52:37 GMT 9

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Post by Amy on Nov 14, 2018 21:52:37 GMT 9

Nov 14, 2018 21:40:11 GMT 9 Raquel said:

I've mentioned it before, but the summer they turn 2 is very important, language-wise. I don't know why this happens, but a friend told me about it and it was true for both my children. Both their turning 2 summers were full of the ml, and it made a great impact on their use and competence of the ml at the time. I'm glad your change in language strategy is working so well. Keep it up!!

Same here! Last summer my 2-year old's ml1 sky-rocketed during our stay in ml1 country. Raquel has told me about her own experience just before we travelled, and I could only agree with her once we were back home and saw the result on our little one's ml1.

Amy

My guest post at Bilingual Monkeys: bilingualmonkeys.com/bilingual-families-and-limiting-the-influence-of-the-majority-language/

My blog in English: www.ourmlhome.wordpress.com My blog in French: bilingue.home.blog

Edward
Junior Keeper

Posts: 22
Country (residing now): Turkey
Country (originally from): The Netherlands
Children, Ages: Daughter, 2.5 years old
Majority Language: Turkish
Minority Language(s): English, Dutch

Development of our bilingual child Nov 14, 2018 22:43:53 GMT 9

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Post by Edward on Nov 14, 2018 22:43:53 GMT 9

Nov 14, 2018 21:40:11 GMT 9 Raquel said:

Hi Edward! Welcome to the forum.

I have to agree with Amy on the bilingual school. Not only that, but even if the rest of the children are Turkish, your daughter will still get more exposure to English than she would if she went to a monolingual school. I didn't care that my daughter's school was a bilingual school, but now that she's spending more time with her friends and using more the ML, it's a relief to know they'll be using the ml much more next year when she starts primary school.

I've mentioned it before, but the summer they turn 2 is very important, language-wise. I don't know why this happens, but a friend told me about it and it was true for both my children. Both their turning 2 summers were full of the ml, and it made a great impact on their use and competence of the ml at the time. I'm glad your change in language strategy is working so well. Keep it up!!

Let me tell about the bilingual schools here in Turkey. Most of them aren't really bilingual, they just offer English from an earlier age(daycare / kindergarten) compared with the state schools here. This way children will be exposed to English earlier in life and hopefully learn it better compared with their peers who start at a later age. The thing is that all the children will know nothing about English in these supposed bilingual schools. So they will still interact in Turkish with each other, and just do some activities to start their path on learning English (learning colours, nursery rhymes, body parts). It is not immersive at all, it is very classroom-like. For my daughter it will be too easy, because she needs the immersion in English, not the education in English (she knows the basics already at her current age, she is singing stuff like BINGO and Baa Baa Black Sheep by heart etc.) That's why I am very doubtful about bilingual schools.

If we were living in Istanbul, it wouldn't be a problem. We could put her in an international school with other foreign children, so she must speak English. However, we live in a small town and there are only a handful of other foreigners here. There are simply no schools like that here. The bilingual schools in my city are meant for teaching Turkish children English, they are not meant for foreigners who happen to live in the area.

Plus, they are freakin' expensive.

It is still a bit far away...and Turkey is really dynamic. Each year is completely different here. There are plans on a bigger focus of bilingual education in this country, so who knows what the future will bring.

Adam Beck
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Author of "Maximize Your Child's Bilingual Ability" and "Bilingual Success Stories Around the World"

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Development of our bilingual child Nov 15, 2018 10:46:44 GMT 9

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Post by Adam Beck on Nov 15, 2018 10:46:44 GMT 9

Edward, welcome to this board! I enjoyed reading through the early posts in your thread, which is already very fruitful!

On one hand, our circumstances are very different, but it's also true that we share some basic conditions in that English is our minority language and we don't have much opportunity to provide our children with exposure to this language from outside our majority language location (apart from Skype). It's certainly true, though, that having English as our target language is hugely helpful to success. I mean, it still takes a lot of persistent efforts to provide that necessary language exposure on a daily basis, but the fact that good English resources are so plentiful and English is a widely-used, and widely-desired, language means that, as long as we persevere in our efforts, the odds of success are on our side.

Bilingual SuperKids: Supercharge the success and joy of your family's bilingual or multilingual journey with powerful private coaching from Adam Beck, author of "Maximize Your Child's Bilingual Ability" and "Bilingual Success Stories Around the World"
bilingualsuperkids.com

Raquel
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Country (residing now): Spain
Country (originally from): Spain
Children, Ages: daughter (10) & son (7)
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Development of our bilingual child Nov 15, 2018 18:35:07 GMT 9

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Post by Raquel on Nov 15, 2018 18:35:07 GMT 9

Nov 14, 2018 22:43:53 GMT 9 Edward said:

Plus, they are freakin' expensive.

Say no more!

Just for the record, our bilingual schools aren't any better, and I'm in Madrid. They are public, that's true, which makes them free, but my daughter is in English class with all her Spanish monolingual friends. I thought she would get bored in class, but, from what I hear, she just chats away with the teacher when addressed. Her extra exposure isn't coming from other children, but from the English teacher.

But, truth be told, I don't even count that time as English exposure. My daughter doesn't attend this school because it's bilingual, but because it's a school we like, regardless of language.

I agree with Adam that, those of us whose ml is English have it easy when it comes to resources, compared to those with less global languages.

Edward
Junior Keeper

Posts: 22
Country (residing now): Turkey
Country (originally from): The Netherlands
Children, Ages: Daughter, 2.5 years old
Majority Language: Turkish
Minority Language(s): English, Dutch

Development of our bilingual child Nov 15, 2018 18:53:41 GMT 9

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Post by Edward on Nov 15, 2018 18:53:41 GMT 9

Nov 15, 2018 10:46:44 GMT 9 Adam Beck said:

Edward, welcome to this board! I enjoyed reading through the early posts in your thread, which is already very fruitful!

On one hand, our circumstances are very different, but it's also true that we share some basic conditions in that English is our minority language and we don't have much opportunity to provide our children with exposure to this language from outside our majority language location (apart from Skype). It's certainly true, though, that having English as our target language is hugely helpful to success. I mean, it still takes a lot of persistent efforts to provide that necessary language exposure on a daily basis, but the fact that good English resources are so plentiful and English is a widely-used, and widely-desired, language means that, as long as we persevere in our efforts, the odds of success are on our side.

I don't know exactly how English is viewed as a language in Japan, but Turkish people are aware of how important it is to learn English. I already heard a million times from Turkish people 'Your child is so lucky that she is going to learn English'. Children are no different, on the streets children are constantly attempting to talk with me in English. Even children who are only 4 years old are trying to talk with me in English, because they already learn at that age how important English is. Of course, it is very limited and they don't say anything else than 'hello' and 'goodbye'.

That's why I am not that scared that my child will feel isolated or will entirely refuse the language once kindergarten starts. Two things can happen...either her classmates will admire her for her English knowledge, or she will get bullied. I have noticed bullying happens really less in Turkey (thankfully), so honestly I am not that scared that she will reject the language. If anything, daily life here will reinforce the idea of the importance of English. While not many Turkish people speak English, almost all the Turkish people are fully aware of the importance of English and they also teach this to their children.

Just for the record, our bilingual schools aren't any better, and I'm in Madrid. They are public, that's true, which makes them free, but my daughter is in English class with all her Spanish monolingual friends. I thought she would get bored in class, but, from what I hear, she just chats away with the teacher when addressed. Her extra exposure isn't coming from other children, but from the English teacher

But, truth be told, I don't even count that time as English exposure. My daughter doesn't attend this school because it's bilingual, but because it's a school we like, regardless of language.

Money is the reason why I start to ask myself 'Is it worth the money if she is already going to know so much English by the time she goes to kindergarten?' Actually, I work here as an English teacher at the moment. I have one student who is currently bilingual in Turkish/English (5 years old). Her English is obviously weaker than her Turkish, but she just loves to talk with me, and of course, she speaks only English to me. However, all her interactions with her classmates are in Turkish, so while it is good for her to have one more person in her life to practice English with, I don't think it is worth the price that we would pay for this type of schools in Turkey.

Tatyana L
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Development of our bilingual child Nov 17, 2018 1:28:52 GMT 9 via mobile

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Post by Tatyana L on Nov 17, 2018 1:28:52 GMT 9

I just want to chime in on the bilingual school aspect. Your child is young yet, so this is years in the future, but speaking skills and literacy skills are two separate areas that each needs nurturing. I live in an interesting situation where my child speaks ML (English), my native language Russian and now attends a bilingual Spanish school. By having that contrast of home-only language and school-only language, I can quite clearly see the benefit of bilingual education. My child *has* to read and write in Spanish, every day. She doesn’t get to play on mama’s emotions and exhaust her with her tantrums until mama gives up. She doesn’t get to be too busy with extracurriculars to not have time for it. It’s just an everyday constant in her life. Unlike the case with the heritage Russian literacy experiences, where abovementioned obstacles happen all the time. As a result her school language may not be as rich as her home language, but it is as natural for her to read and write in it, as it is in her ML. Since English is your ml, I’d say those literacy skills are even more important because it is a business/academia lingua franca.

Edward
Junior Keeper

Posts: 22
Country (residing now): Turkey
Country (originally from): The Netherlands
Children, Ages: Daughter, 2.5 years old
Majority Language: Turkish
Minority Language(s): English, Dutch

Development of our bilingual child Dec 4, 2018 15:41:16 GMT 9

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Post by Edward on Dec 4, 2018 15:41:16 GMT 9

A little update since I feel like writing about my own child's bilingual journey.

Last weekend she made her first full 'more than 3 words' English sentence. I quote: 'Mommy is holding the fish'. In one of her books is a picture of a mommy holding a fish bowl. I was pleasantly surprised when she said the full sentence in English (and she didn't forget the article either!). Mommy is speaking English consistently with her now too, and my daughter is getting more used to speaking in English again. A lot of sentences are still mixed, though. She has a better grip on tenses in Turkish. Generally sentences are formed like this: 'orange car is geliyor' or ' the cat kaçıyor'. She is saying a lot of things like this. She has started to use the past tense in English...sort of, but she doesn't understand the future tense. Whenever she wants to talk about the future, sentences are always like 'grandma gelecek' (future tense in Turkish). Hopefully she will pick up on this soon, because this is one of the main differences between her Turkish and English abilities.

While she is playing alone she is speaking in Turkish most of the time, she has to be engaged with English speaking people in order to speak English, but I guess this is normal.

We might have to pick a daycare earlier than we expected, so we are checking now which daycares would be appropriate for our daughter. I also talked with some English teachers here about the English education for 2-3 year olds. Generally they sing nursery rhymes and play flashcard games. If the English teacher is willing to only speak English to my daughter, then I feel positive about this experience, but if it will be a Turkish class with some basic English words in the mix, then I think it will do more harm than good.

One last thing...I started to notice that my daughter started to pronounce the 'w' with a slight Turkish accent (as the 'v' in Turkish). This might be because my wife is talking to her, and pretty much all Turkish people here have this mispronunciation of the letter 'w'. I am also aware that I might have a slight Dutch accent in my English. My daughter isn't pronouncing 'th' sounds always correctly for example (something that typically both Dutch and Turkish people do wrong while speaking English). I guess I just have to accept that her accent will be some mixture between American English, and Dutch/Turkish accent? Since she is mostly learning from her parents.

Oh and sorry for not replying to the other topics. I am reading your stories and I did hit the reply button a few times, but I am really busy and can never finish a reply. Just keep on writing, since I love reading other people's experiences.

Raquel
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Development of our bilingual child Dec 4, 2018 19:10:49 GMT 9

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Post by Raquel on Dec 4, 2018 19:10:49 GMT 9

Don't worry about replying, Edward.

I'm surprised your daughter is using the past tense in both languages and the future tense in Turkish. My son, who is 2 as well, but not 2.5 yet, doesn't really understand tenses. He'll say "I fell" because that's what he's always heard, but most of the time he'll use the present tense.

Regarding pronunciation, I'm right there with you. I know my children will have an accent, in spite of playing with a native speaker weekly or being exposed to them by listening to the radio, songs, audiobooks and TV. We are their main ml source, so chances are they'll pick up our accent. I hope they'll do a bit better than us, but they'll definitely have an accent. What I try to do is work on whatever sound I can tell I'm mispronouncing, so that, hopefully, my children will pick up on it and change their pronunciation accordingly.

Best of luck choosing a daycare!!

Edward
Junior Keeper

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Country (residing now): Turkey
Country (originally from): The Netherlands
Children, Ages: Daughter, 2.5 years old
Majority Language: Turkish
Minority Language(s): English, Dutch

Development of our bilingual child Dec 4, 2018 19:33:37 GMT 9

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Post by Edward on Dec 4, 2018 19:33:37 GMT 9

Dec 4, 2018 19:10:49 GMT 9 Raquel said:

Don't worry about replying, Edward.

I'm surprised your daughter is using the past tense in both languages and the future tense in Turkish. My son, who is 2 as well, but not 2.5 yet, doesn't really understand tenses. He'll say "I fell" because that's what he's always heard, but most of the time he'll use the present tense.

Regarding pronunciation, I'm right there with you. I know my children will have an accent, in spite of playing with a native speaker weekly or being exposed to them by listening to the radio, songs, audiobooks and TV. We are their main ml source, so chances are they'll pick up our accent. I hope they'll do a bit better than us, but they'll definitely have an accent. What I try to do is work on whatever sound I can tell I'm mispronouncing, so that, hopefully, my children will pick up on it and change their pronunciation accordingly.

Best of luck choosing a daycare!!

Actually, whenever I am checking what is considered 'normal' for a 2,5 year old child, I am surprised that my daughter's Turkish is pretty much already at the level of a 3 year old. She is using past tense, present and future tense. Sometimes she still mixes them up, but generally she is using them correctly. Turkish has a reportative mood that she is using better than I do. I remember she said a sentence in the passive voice once. She is also using the Turkish pronouns correctly. I do have to say that these parts of the Turkish language are consistent. Luckily Turkish isn't plagued by the many irregularities that English has, so maybe that's also why she picked up on these things faster in Turkish.

Her English is where it 'should' be at 2,5 year old. She makes 3 word sentences, and she is using present simple/continuous correctly. She is using the imperative a lot (play daddy! come daddy! lie down daddy!, sit down daddy!). Her vocabulary in both English and Turkish are pretty much the same, maybe she knows a bit more words in Turkish, but there is not a huge difference. Some phrases are still said because she learnt it that way, not because she understands the underlying grammar. I only wish that the balance between Turkish and English is more equal. She is not speaking English by herself, she needs her parents in order to speak English. Turkish is the ML and it is clear that she is more comfortable with Turkish.

As for her accent. My English has a tiny, tiny Dutch accent (you will only notice it if you pay attention to it), but my wife's, and generally most Turkish people who know English, have a stronger Turkish accent in their English. She will be hearing this 'Turkish-English' a lot, so it will most likely influence her as well. I don't think it is a big problem, though. It is also just a part of who she is. In the Netherlands they always try to teach everyone to speak English with a British accent. It sounds horribly forced and unnatural to me. I prefer Dutch-accented English over forcing yourself to sound British, even when you are not. Hope that makes sense.

Raquel
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Country (residing now): Spain
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Majority Language: Spanish
Minority Language(s): English

Development of our bilingual child Dec 5, 2018 18:27:48 GMT 9

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Post by Raquel on Dec 5, 2018 18:27:48 GMT 9

They do love the imperative. My son is also a fan of "I want...". He uses the present continuous correctly, but I don't think he really understands past and future tenses. He'll say things like "I'm going to...", but I don't think I've ever heard him say "I will". The thing is he hardly ever talks about the past other than the immediate past: "the boy hit me", "I fell", "[sister] did this" just after it happened. He does use "did", but if he has to say "threw", "caught" or "got" he uses the present tense and says "throw", "catch" and "get". This is why I'm so impressed with your daughter's use of past and future tenses. Children at this age aren't even aware of there being a past and a future, so it's no wonder they don't use these tenses.

Regarding accents, I do have an accent, but my husband's is much stronger. My daughter always pronounces better than her dad, sometimes she'll pronounce better than I do, some others just like me and other times worse (imitating her dad). Even if you don't have an accent, or barely any, your daughter's pronunciation may be affected by her mother's too. While I couldn't have gotten my children to speak English as often and as well as they do by myself, it's also true that they also learn their dad's mistakes -and mine- in not just pronunciation, but everything else too. You just have to pay attention to these mistakes and correct them - or at least that's what I do.

Edward
Junior Keeper

Posts: 22
Country (residing now): Turkey
Country (originally from): The Netherlands
Children, Ages: Daughter, 2.5 years old
Majority Language: Turkish
Minority Language(s): English, Dutch

Development of our bilingual child Dec 6, 2018 14:45:25 GMT 9

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Post by Edward on Dec 6, 2018 14:45:25 GMT 9

Dec 5, 2018 18:27:48 GMT 9 Raquel said:

They do love the imperative. My son is also a fan of "I want...". He uses the present continuous correctly, but I don't think he really understands past and future tenses. He'll say things like "I'm going to...", but I don't think I've ever heard him say "I will". The thing is he hardly ever talks about the past other than the immediate past: "the boy hit me", "I fell", "[sister] did this" just after it happened. He does use "did", but if he has to say "threw", "caught" or "got" he uses the present tense and says "throw", "catch" and "get". This is why I'm so impressed with your daughter's use of past and future tenses. Children at this age aren't even aware of there being a past and a future, so it's no wonder they don't use these tenses.

Regarding accents, I do have an accent, but my husband's is much stronger. My daughter always pronounces better than her dad, sometimes she'll pronounce better than I do, some others just like me and other times worse (imitating her dad). Even if you don't have an accent, or barely any, your daughter's pronunciation may be affected by her mother's too. While I couldn't have gotten my children to speak English as often and as well as they do by myself, it's also true that they also learn their dad's mistakes -and mine- in not just pronunciation, but everything else too. You just have to pay attention to these mistakes and correct them - or at least that's what I do.

After reading your post yesterday I didn't have time to reply right away, but it made me notice something while talking with my daughter last night. When I came back home she asked me 'where are you, daddy?' She should have asked 'where were you, daddy?', but she didn't use the past tense. By the same token, she is always shouting 'daddy come! daddy come!' when I open the door of our house. In both cases she is not using the past tense, but she is using the past tense with verbs like 'turn' or 'play'. Most likely she is aware that some verbs are 'different' (irregular), but she didn't learn yet how to use the tenses of those verbs, so she sticks to present tense.

My daughter is very well aware of time. At the end of the day I always ask her 'what did you do today?', and the Turkish part of her half English/half Turkish sentences are always in past tense. Verbs like 'play' are also in past tense (but 'eat' isn't! she either sticks to Turkish or says 'eating'). If we have any plans for the evening, she will always use future tense in Turkish, but present continuous in English. I think she can already use past tense/future tense in Turkish because Turkish grammar has very, very few irregularities. English is a nightmare when it comes to irregularities. I should actually check sources of what to expect of the development of Turkish language acquisition, because most likely it is different than English.

Oh I am aware of that. My daughter keeps on saying 'open the light' (instead of turn on / switch on the light) because Turkish people make this mistake a lot. I correct her, but she keeps on saying open the lights. And to be fair, after living here for a long time 'open the light' starts to sound natural to me too, because everyone is saying it here, instead of turning on the light. Anyway, her having an accent is not necessarily a bad thing. She is Dutch/Turkish after all, she is not British or American.

Raquel
Star Keeper

Posts: 1,234

Country (residing now): Spain
Country (originally from): Spain
Children, Ages: daughter (10) & son (7)
Majority Language: Spanish
Minority Language(s): English

Development of our bilingual child Dec 10, 2018 18:50:18 GMT 9

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Post by Raquel on Dec 10, 2018 18:50:18 GMT 9

Very true, Edward! There's nothing wrong with having an accent as long as you're understood.

Wow, now I'm even more impressed, but because she uses questions correctly! My daughter is 5 and she makes questions mistakes: "What you did today?" instead of "What did you do today?" I really need to work on that with her.

That's cute about opening lights over there. My children sometimes 'borrow' like that in both languages. But, with time and lots of exposure, they'll stop making all these mistakes.

Edward
Junior Keeper

Posts: 22
Country (residing now): Turkey
Country (originally from): The Netherlands
Children, Ages: Daughter, 2.5 years old
Majority Language: Turkish
Minority Language(s): English, Dutch

Development of our bilingual child Dec 11, 2018 18:45:54 GMT 9

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Post by Edward on Dec 11, 2018 18:45:54 GMT 9

Dec 10, 2018 18:50:18 GMT 9 Raquel said:

Very true, Edward! There's nothing wrong with having an accent as long as you're understood.

Wow, now I'm even more impressed, but because she uses questions correctly! My daughter is 5 and she makes questions mistakes: "What you did today?" instead of "What did you do today?" I really need to work on that with her.

That's cute about opening lights over there. My children sometimes 'borrow' like that in both languages. But, with time and lots of exposure, they'll stop making all these mistakes.My da

Honestly, I hope she will stop saying stuff like 'opening the lights' (unless she actually wants to, you know, open a light for whatever reason). It's very interesting that children this young already start to copy characteristic elements from the other languages they know.

My daughter is on her way to learning the past tense, but she is in this phase now that everything in the past tense should be said with -ed, according to her. She melts my heart when she uses it correctly...and she makes me giggle when she says stuff like 'comed'. For now I am just correcting her each time. Interestingly, she does use the past tense of 'fall (down)' correctly. She likes to 'fake' fall down, so I guess that's how she picked up on that one.

If anyone is interested, I checked how Turkish develops in children, and the expectations are lower, but they also say it is normal for children to start speaking about past/future around 2 to 2,5 years old (in contrast to English, where they expect it much later). I thought it was interesting that each language develops differently, and each child's language development is so unique.