Learning Papiamentu and Spanish in the Netherlands
Dec 19, 2018 14:22:48 GMT 9
Post by Rose P on Dec 19, 2018 14:22:48 GMT 9
ML= Dutch
ml1 = Papiamentu
ml2 = Spanish
Father speaks only ML
Mother speaks ml1, and is trying to learn ml2 along with the kids.
Hello! I'm starting a thread here at the 'Track Your Progress' board so I can more easily track our progress.
I have two daughters: an almost 5 year old, and a 5 week old baby girl. We live in the Netherlands.
I myself was born on the Dutch antilles (a small Island called Curacau) where they speak Papiamentu/Papiamento (a language which is best described as a mix of Spanish/English/Dutch/Portuguese). (See bilingualzoo.com/thread/1069/mom-girls-living-netherlands-papiamentu)
With my eldest daughter I've been trying to speak Papiamentu (the ml) to her on and off over the last 4.5 years. And recently with the birth of our new baby I've decided to give raising the kids bilingual another go.
Resources in Papiamentu are very slim, though, there's not much out there for kids. I've posted more about the my situation and the troubles I'm encountering a the link above.
Since Papiamentu and Spanish have some things in common, and Spanish resources are so much better accessible, I decided about a week ago to try and see if I could make Spanish our ml2 (or perhaps in time even our ml1!). Since I don't speak Spanish (yet) I will also be tracking my own progress I guess.
After introducing myself here on the forum I got quite a few tips from other 'zoo keepers' and I've been implementing some of them.
I've posted little Curacau flags in our living room and by the door to remind myself to speak Papiamentu to my daughters.
When at home I try to speak as much in Papiamentu to my eldest daughter (whenever I remember to). I often do the "sandwich method" though, because her vocabulary is still very small due to the fact I haven't been consistent in speaking ml1 at all in the last few years. So I'll often be saying something in Papiamentu, then repeating it or part of it in Dutch, then repeat it again in Papiamentu (that's a lot of talking btw on my part ).
I've looked up some (old) Papiamentu children;s music, planning to put it on usb or something so I can play it in the background more often.
I've found a few free online poems in ml1, I've printed them out and am now reading them to her as bedtime stories. She seems to enjoy them because I've explained the poems to her (again, using the sandwich method) and it's in rhyme, so she can still hear the ryhthm of the language.
Last night I was asking her questions about the story, in ml1, but she can't answer those questions, not even if she's allowed to use Dutch (ML) to answer. If I ask the same question in Dutch she obviously answers immediately.
My daughter seems to like trying to speak in different languages. And since I've started to speak more in ml1 to her, she is sometimes trying to use Papiamentu words when speaking to me. No real sentences, just a word here and there. Sometimes (when we're alone) she'll try to do an entire sentence, but will be code-switching with English (which I find funny, cause we're Dutch), so she'll substitute the words she doesn't know with either Dutch or English, and here and there a word of Papiamentu.
The other day when she was holding her baby sister she suddenly said "kon ta puja!" in ml1...which means "how are you little fart!" I was looking at her puzzled. Why would she say such a mean thing to her baby sister?! Then she repeated the sentence in Dutch and said "Hoe gaat het scheetje" and I realized she had actually tried to say a sweet thing. In Dutch it means something like 'sweety pie' when you say 'scheetje' , but the literal translation to Papiamentu doesn't work like that, LOL. Still, I found it awesome that she tried to do this, and it made for a great story in the family whatsapp group. It's gotten to be an inside joke between me and my sisters now.
For Spanish
My daughter pointed out to me yesterday that the cartoon 'Word Party' (fiesta del palabras?) is also in Dutch (we used to watch this cartoon in Dutch before my new resolution ). She pointed out that the Dutch Word Party is 'more fun' because it's easier. I told her that in time the Spanish version will become just as easy as the Dutch version and therefore more enjoyable. She nodded wisely in response. 
We watch a lot of the free songs on Rockalingua and we're both loving it! The first 2 times listening to a new song I'll translate some of the words for her while listening to the song. It's so much fun to hear my daughter sing in Spanish! I hear her sing the songs when she's playing by herself (she really picks up on songs very quickly!) and sometimes we sing together.
One great thing about the Spanish children's songs is that it's also building on her Papiamentu vocabulary.
--about half the basic colors are the same
--counting from 1-100 is almost the same with exception of 11-19
I sometimes use the Spanish sentences to point out the similarities with Papiamentu. For example, the song says ''ya tengo frio" (I am cold) and I'll point out that in Papiamentu it's "mi ten friow" (phonetically written). Or that "buenas noches" is "bon nochi" in Papiamentu. I hope it's a good thing the languages have some similarities and that it won't get too confusing for her.
And I do some daily Duolingo lessons on my phone.
Struggles I have at the moment
I feel really awkward speaking ml1 to my kids in public. I've spent my entire life blending in and integrating into this country (the Netherlands), and it feels really counterintuitive to speak anything different than Dutch in public.
Also, I'm not sure about what to do when we have visitors. I would like to continue speaking ml1 to my daughter...but it feels really rude to me, as if I'm talking behind people's back. (Or that's what I think people will think.) Especially because nobody else in our day to day lives can understand ml1. I think it would feel different if, say, I spoke English to my daughter in public. As every single Dutch person can at least understand English, so it wouldn't feel so 'secretive' when I'm telling my daughter something when not using the ML.
I'm the main caregiver of my kids, and now that I'm spending more time and energy in fostering ml1 and ml2, I fear I'm not spending enough time with reading in Dutch, and practising my daughter's reading. (She's four, but she's already reading short Dutch sentences and I'd like to keep practising this because I hope she'll grow very fond of reading and will soon be able to independently read children's books if she so wishes to.)
Well, that's it for now. I'm planning to come up with some small goals (language-wise) so the progress will be better to track. (I've already seen some inspiring posts about goals.)
ml1 = Papiamentu
ml2 = Spanish
Father speaks only ML
Mother speaks ml1, and is trying to learn ml2 along with the kids.
*****************************************************************
Hello! I'm starting a thread here at the 'Track Your Progress' board so I can more easily track our progress.
I have two daughters: an almost 5 year old, and a 5 week old baby girl. We live in the Netherlands.
I myself was born on the Dutch antilles (a small Island called Curacau) where they speak Papiamentu/Papiamento (a language which is best described as a mix of Spanish/English/Dutch/Portuguese). (See bilingualzoo.com/thread/1069/mom-girls-living-netherlands-papiamentu)
With my eldest daughter I've been trying to speak Papiamentu (the ml) to her on and off over the last 4.5 years. And recently with the birth of our new baby I've decided to give raising the kids bilingual another go.
Resources in Papiamentu are very slim, though, there's not much out there for kids. I've posted more about the my situation and the troubles I'm encountering a the link above.
Since Papiamentu and Spanish have some things in common, and Spanish resources are so much better accessible, I decided about a week ago to try and see if I could make Spanish our ml2 (or perhaps in time even our ml1!). Since I don't speak Spanish (yet) I will also be tracking my own progress I guess.
After introducing myself here on the forum I got quite a few tips from other 'zoo keepers' and I've been implementing some of them.
For Papiamentu
When at home I try to speak as much in Papiamentu to my eldest daughter (whenever I remember to). I often do the "sandwich method" though, because her vocabulary is still very small due to the fact I haven't been consistent in speaking ml1 at all in the last few years. So I'll often be saying something in Papiamentu, then repeating it or part of it in Dutch, then repeat it again in Papiamentu (that's a lot of talking btw on my part
).I've looked up some (old) Papiamentu children;s music, planning to put it on usb or something so I can play it in the background more often.
I've found a few free online poems in ml1, I've printed them out and am now reading them to her as bedtime stories. She seems to enjoy them because I've explained the poems to her (again, using the sandwich method) and it's in rhyme, so she can still hear the ryhthm of the language.
Last night I was asking her questions about the story, in ml1, but she can't answer those questions, not even if she's allowed to use Dutch (ML) to answer. If I ask the same question in Dutch she obviously answers immediately.
My daughter seems to like trying to speak in different languages. And since I've started to speak more in ml1 to her, she is sometimes trying to use Papiamentu words when speaking to me. No real sentences, just a word here and there. Sometimes (when we're alone) she'll try to do an entire sentence, but will be code-switching with English (which I find funny, cause we're Dutch), so she'll substitute the words she doesn't know with either Dutch or English, and here and there a word of Papiamentu.
The other day when she was holding her baby sister she suddenly said "kon ta puja!" in ml1...which means "how are you little fart!" I was looking at her puzzled. Why would she say such a mean thing to her baby sister?! Then she repeated the sentence in Dutch and said "Hoe gaat het scheetje" and I realized she had actually tried to say a sweet thing. In Dutch it means something like 'sweety pie' when you say 'scheetje' , but the literal translation to Papiamentu doesn't work like that, LOL. Still, I found it awesome that she tried to do this, and it made for a great story in the family whatsapp group. It's gotten to be an inside joke between me and my sisters now.
For Spanish
Cartoon time is now in Spanish (thank you, Netflix, for the opportunity to switch the spoken languages and subtitle language!)
). She pointed out that the Dutch Word Party is 'more fun' because it's easier. I told her that in time the Spanish version will become just as easy as the Dutch version and therefore more enjoyable. She nodded wisely in response. 
We watch a lot of the free songs on Rockalingua and we're both loving it! The first 2 times listening to a new song I'll translate some of the words for her while listening to the song. It's so much fun to hear my daughter sing in Spanish! I hear her sing the songs when she's playing by herself (she really picks up on songs very quickly!) and sometimes we sing together.
I've also visited the Basho and Friends YouTube channel; even more great songs to discover and listen to! And just now I was reading someone else's thread and discovered www.canticosworld.com.
--about half the basic colors are the same
--counting from 1-100 is almost the same with exception of 11-19
I sometimes use the Spanish sentences to point out the similarities with Papiamentu. For example, the song says ''ya tengo frio" (I am cold) and I'll point out that in Papiamentu it's "mi ten friow" (phonetically written). Or that "buenas noches" is "bon nochi" in Papiamentu. I hope it's a good thing the languages have some similarities and that it won't get too confusing for her.
In the meantime I'm also learning new Spanish words by listening to the children's songs and watching the cartoons alongside my daughter.
I've also switched the subtitles on my own Netflix to Spanish. This way when I'm watching my own shows in English I'm at the same time reading the Spanish words and often times when I see the same word a few times I will look it up if I can't figure out what it means.
Struggles I have at the moment
I feel really awkward speaking ml1 to my kids in public. I've spent my entire life blending in and integrating into this country (the Netherlands), and it feels really counterintuitive to speak anything different than Dutch in public.
Also, I'm not sure about what to do when we have visitors. I would like to continue speaking ml1 to my daughter...but it feels really rude to me, as if I'm talking behind people's back. (Or that's what I think people will think.) Especially because nobody else in our day to day lives can understand ml1. I think it would feel different if, say, I spoke English to my daughter in public. As every single Dutch person can at least understand English, so it wouldn't feel so 'secretive' when I'm telling my daughter something when not using the ML.
I'm the main caregiver of my kids, and now that I'm spending more time and energy in fostering ml1 and ml2, I fear I'm not spending enough time with reading in Dutch, and practising my daughter's reading. (She's four, but she's already reading short Dutch sentences and I'd like to keep practising this because I hope she'll grow very fond of reading and will soon be able to independently read children's books if she so wishes to.)
Well, that's it for now. I'm planning to come up with some small goals (language-wise) so the progress will be better to track. (I've already seen some inspiring posts about goals.)
